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[mascan42]

I have a 7170 that is stopping immediately after the cutter runs. Depending on the length of the paper, the jam is either J-0203 for short paper that stops with the lead edge between the drum & the fuser, or J-0210 for longer paper that makes it into the exit section.

I changed the encoder sensor already & it made no difference.

[mascan42]

And it just got stranger. The problem only occurred using roll 1 (24 inch). No problem with roll 2 (36 inch). So I swapped the rolls, and now neither roll jams.

[tjohnson]

I would guess it is a problem with the length detection sensor/wheel right above the 1st paper roll area. You would have to take the roll deck cover off to access the wheel, but the sensor can be accessed from inside the deck. There was a tech tip regarding this.

[mascan42]

tjohnson wrote:

I would guess it is a problem with the length detection sensor/wheel right above the 1st paper roll area. You would have to take the roll deck cover off to access the wheel, but the sensor can be accessed from inside the deck. There was a tech tip regarding this.

This is the encoder sensor that I already replaced.

[tjohnson]

Have you been able to verify the wheel is turning? I ended up adding some diameter to the white idler roller using a couple wraps of vinyl tape, you can't really increase the tension. Because the idler hits the frame without enlarging the idler. There also is a similar setup in the exit end of the machine. Kip had a bad batch of sensors, any one of them could be bad.

Last edited by tjohnson on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Augiedoggy]

I question the "Bad batch" of sensors I was also told was the issue since I have replaced about 20-30 of these damn things in the last year... The issue goes away for a while only to return, and I'm not talking about just the sensor in this location... I have had some not work in one position but when swapped with another they both work and others flat out die... Some of these were replacement sensors ordered after the faulty ones were discovered....(And I do realize that the encoder sensor in question above can throw multiple false jam errors in different areas).
Its the same 4 machines I have that keep experiencing these sensor failures..I recently read here that someone suggested the zip ties on the wiring harnesses are too tight causing leakage somehow... this seem kind of unlikely but I dont know what else to try at this point. I have some fairly dissapointed customers. One of them has three 7100s and only one machine has constant intermittent and hard sensor failures... I have another 7770 which had a hard drive failing message pop up when the machine was 2 weeks out of warranty and kip would not budge as far as a free replacement. The customer had an older kip that had the same HDD failure a few times so they knew of the no name hard drives all too well and had me replace the drive with a solid state one. Then 3 different sensor failure calls in the first year on this machine even though I replaced them ALL after the first failure fearing they were the defective ones.
I think its pretty poor that the customer has to foot the bill for a manufacturer's defect that they wont officially own up to.

[tech2tech]

We had this situation with multiple 7170's when we first started placing them. The solution is using a Tripp Lite Line Filter. We have not had any issues on any machines with the line filter.
_________________
"If you mess with a thing long enough, It'll break"

[Augiedoggy]

tech2tech wrote:

We had this situation with multiple 7170's when we first started placing them. The solution is using a Tripp Lite Line Filter. We have not had any issues on any machines with the line filter.

This is news to me but I'm willing to try anything at this point.

[tjohnson]

I can understand how a power filter could help since the switching voltage needed to change states can be so small with 5 volt sensors.

When I posted KIP had a batch of bad sensors, that word came from KIP themselves. I complained on the KIP forum about these sensors and how KIP doesn't seem to stand behind resolving this problem and I received a message asking me to contact KIP regarding this problem, so whatever they know for fact, they don't want it published. I did not call them.

[Augiedoggy]

tjohnson wrote:

I can understand how a power filter could help since the switching voltage needed to change states can be so small with 5 volt sensors. When I posted KIP had a batch of bad sensors, that word came from KIP themselves. I complained on the KIP forum about these sensors and how KIP doesn't seem to stand behind resolving this problem and I received a message asking me to contact KIP regarding this problem, so whatever they know for fact, they don't want it published. I did not call them.

they basically told me the same they also stated they corrected the issue like 6-8 months ago ... We have lost quite a bit of money on one machine already traveling 3 hrs each way whenever this pops up... I asked if there was anything else that could possibly be causing these issues to keep reoccuring and they told me all I could do is keep replacing the sensors if that solves the problem.
This is extremely frustrating and I feel like I'm stuck in the middle looking like an incompetent tech every time this same problem pops back up.
I have replaced more kip sensors and hard drives in the last 2 years in the last year than xerox /ricoh/hp sensors that I've ever replaced in 17 years of servicing them. and close to as many hard drives... besically all my kips but 4 have had the hard drive fail.... Thats a pretty bad record when we are talking like 15 kips and the oldest one being 3.5 years old....

Last edited by Augiedoggy on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

[tjohnson]

I haven't actually metered the voltages to see what the sensors are reading because I've only had 2 machines show this problem, both fixed with no repeat calls until last week, another sensor in the same machine, different area had issues. I thought this machine was after the problem production run, but now I'm wondering if the low voltage power supplies are running a couple 10ths lower and that may affect the switching, that is why I thought making sure you had clean power may be a good option to investigate. Unless all their new sensors are just doomed to fail. The next time I have a sensor issue I will be checking voltages, not just looking at the state in service mode.

[Augiedoggy]

I will certainly be checking into this as well... some of my kips have power conditioners... I dont recall any of these having issues.

[Augiedoggy]

justgot another call on another machine for the same issues... customer reboots and it works for a while...
had one of these sensors fail in the developer position drive motor (encoder sensor) last week and it resulted in a CPLD error intermittently if the customer rebooted 50% of the time it would work and 50% of the time the motor would keep spinning and time out with the error... its almost a joke how often these are failing for me... sad thing is the same customer has three machines and has noticed the trend at all their locations. im going to check voltages today on this one. I'm sure kip is monitoring these forums.... Please Address this issue! if its a power issue then require a conditioner or fix your power supplies to run correctly on 120v.

[tjohnson]

I've had 2 7170s with bad sensors last week, in the paper length detection area that would make the machines back the rolls out and say paper is not installed, both these machines are on a decent power protection device.

[Augiedoggy]

OK you want to know something really funny... as I was leaving this call today with a bad sensor I recieved yet a nother call on a 7170 with the exact same issue!!!

I discovered some strange things, first off I had the issue with both rolls not loading it took many trys and even after replacing the main drawer encoder sensor and varifying that the media was moving the encoder wheel I still had issues getting these rolls to consistently be recognized and when they did I would intermittently get a jam in mid transport area error right as the lead edge would pass that sensor, because of this I knew that sensor was acting up so I opened it up with the power on and put my meter on the sensor power wires... I consistently got 1.431v on that sensor double checking it about 6 times, after powering the machine down and changing the sensor I got 1.347 volts?? so I replaced it with another same 1.347 after yet another reboot and another sensor.

At this point I decided to shutdown the machine yet again and put the original one back in...1.347!! So i reinstalled a new one buttoned it up and found that everything started working consistently even the paper loading which before took multiple tries.... something very odd is going on here with the sensor circuit.

I'm going to check the same things if I have time tomorrow on the call with the same issue...

last week I had one of these same sensors in the developer position motor assy for the position cam fail and give a CPLD config error 0049 and it was hit or miss but you could hear the motor keep spinning before it would time out and the error popped up... these are all newer 7170 machines but the one I serviced today which was installed the same week as my real problem machine which has had some of the same sensors replace 3 times now.