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Repairing a KIP 3000 controller
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:06 am    Post subject: Repairing a KIP 3000 controller Reply with quote Back to top

Hey all, I am a computer tech but am reasonably new to KIP hardware.

I have a regular IT customer who happens to own a KIP 3000 printer that stopped working. We called in a KIP technician who stated that the KIP controller wasn't booting up at all due to a failed power supply. Well since I have built hundreds of PCs and given my rates are a quater of what KIP techs charge, he agrred the best plan was for me to source a replacement power supply and fit it myself.

Well, I did replace the power supply but still no joy. CPU fan would spin for a second and then stop. Looked at MOBO closely and discovered a bulging capacitor so I can only guess that is the problem. I tried booting with everything disconnected except the MOBO and CPU but still nothing but the 1 second spin of CPU fan.

Since I am not that keen on replacing the capacitor, I have now moved the hard drive and SSCI card to another computer altogther. Luckily it booted up first try, most likely because both MOBOs were Intel Pentium based.

However, two noticeable problems are apparent.

1) At startup, I get a mesage saying "winuntd unable to read MAC address". My research suggests that process is developed by Mars Custom Computers who are the makers of the SSCi controller card.

2) A big red window pops up every 15 seconds with a beep saying "Kip Instant Print COMMUNICATION ERROR"

So I am guessing the SSCI board isnt working properly but I saw it in under device manager as "KIP DMA System Board" with a status of "device is working properly.

Unfortunatly, I wasn't able to use the same PCI riser from the original KIP controller as the replacement computer only had a PCIE slot so I needed to use a different PCI/PCIE riser card. Is it possible that the PCI riser card is the issue?

As a final question, what part of the controller allows the KIP printer to power up the controller automatically (ie without pushing the power button at the front of the controller)? I saw what looked to be a blue power switch
on top of the riser card, is that it? Or maybe via the com port or VGA port. I have seen setups in the past where a spare pinn on the VGA cable was used to power up a connected PC (but it only worked with a special VGA cable with the spare pin active).

Sorry for all these questions.

I hope you guys can help.
 
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CHILLIN
doctor


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 950

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Welcome to Kip controllers.
I don't have all your answers but maybe able to help you a little.
If the Kip 3000 is a serial # 1050xxxx then the controller is probably a white box. (Newer ones are black) unfortunately the white controllers are no longer available and almost if not impossible to find, since that serial # machine has met its end of life.

The controller boots through A power board. Sounds like you might want to check your bios settings. You can check this forum and I think the setting have been posted before. It sounds like the setting to power up after power loss is set wrong. It needs to be set to power on after power loss. There are other bios setting changes that need to be made as well.

As far as the errors you are seeing it sound like what you think is correct. I would guess (I'm not a computer wiz) that the drivers are not correct for the riser card, IF card and mother board you are using. Kip uses a Ghost Cd to image the hard drives and are motherboard specific.

Sorry I can't be more help than that, maybe someone will post more. If by chance the Controller is a black box and the Kip 3000 is a model serial # 1051xxx it might just be easier and cheaper in the long run to just replace the controller.

Good luck.
 
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dlee
doctor


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1459
Location: E. Syracuse NY

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Not much of a computer tech either but I believe the IF card is specific to the Motherboard and (IPS #). I'm guessing that "winuntd unable to read MAC address" because there is a mismatch in IF/MOBO. I don't thing I've seen "KIP Instant Print COMMUNICATION ERROR" but if I boot up a working controller, with everything disconnected, I'll get a red window pop up with an error saying something like "WINUNTD connection error and it's due to the fact that the IPS is looking for a printer on startup. If I'm doing something else, I'll go to task manager and close the WinUntd.

But honestly, that bulging capacitor has been talked about a few times on this forum. One time, I had a bad capacitor on a TV board and took the board out and had someone replace it for $25. Might be a lot easier and cheaper if you just took that mobo out and brought it to someone to replace the capacitor. The capacitor probably costs 25 cents.
 
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Placebo
intern


Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 139

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It is most likely the bulging cap that is causing your problem. Check all the others as usually there is more than one. I have repaired several MB's by replacing the bad caps. It is a very common problem.
 
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1852
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Several years ago the caps were discovered to be defective. Wrong dielectric used which led to cap failure. If you know how to properly use a soldering iron replace them all. The flashing screen you see is caused by the controller looking for the printer, kill unattend and it will cease. The OEM, last I heard, has stopped production of the power supply, but they are available from the sysop of this forum.

< "winuntd unable to read MAC address". > Try reseating the IF card. If you changed the IF put it back.
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Mark
RVN 68-69
It's so nice to be insane
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks guys.

OK well it is the older model as it is a white MSI case.

Interesting the comment about the error message possibly be relating to the fact that I am booting the controller stand-alone connected to a monitor. The MAC address error and red communiation error popup may very well be just saying that it can't find the attached printer (who would have thought lol). But Mark In Vegas's last post is suggesting that the MAC address is the IF card and not the missing printer.

As i said, in device manager I see the Kip DMA System Board which is just a PCI controller card connected into a PCIE riser card (my bad for calling it a SSCI card before).

So I might just connect the "new" controller back into the KIP and see if those error messages go away. THe only thing missing in device manager is the ethernet driver which should be an easy fix.

I very much hope that the IPS (i.e. XP install on hard drive) and PCI controller card are not motherboard dependent. I would have thought that if the XP system boots up with the replacement MOBO, you should be good to go. From my experience (as I have done it several times for gerneral PC repairs), if you use a MOBO with a similar chipset (i.e. Intel and similar generation), the Windows system is then able to deal with loading up the correct MOBO drivers.

Regarding trying to fix the old board and bulging capacitor, i may go down that road if I have to but I am pretty surpised that one bulging capacitor would stop a system from booting up. Intermiitent lock-ups and shutdowns maybe but no boot at all seems pretty wierd.

I am still slightly unclear as to how the controller boots up when connected to the main printer unit, but your comment about the BIOS does make sense. If you set the BIOS to "power on after power loss", then the controller would start without having to push the power button. I expected somehting a little more high-tech lol.

I think the best thing to do is try the "new" controller in the KIP. If it works, I should be able to make thousands of dollars resurrecting all those KIP 3000 boat anchors lol.

The case size of the replacement controller is roughly the same size so hopefully it mounts back into the KIP correctly.


Last edited by marky000 on Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1852
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

<I expected somehting a little more high-tech lol> You're dealing with 10+ year old tech.......It's likely more than one cap is failed. If you can build a controller the same physical size, that works correctly, you may have a small market to tap.
_________________
Regards,
Mark
RVN 68-69
It's so nice to be insane
No one asks you to explain


Last edited by mark in vegas on Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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CHILLIN
doctor


Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 950

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Basically Power is supply to the Controller from a power board that monitors t&s the machine on/off switch. Bios setting turns it on and off. FYI check for the correct bios settings. There are a few that need to be changed.

Also if you get the controller fixed I have a few 100 more you could fix.
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Mark and Chillin.

If I can establish that the MAC address error message is referring to the missing printer and not due to an IF card MOBO mismatch, then I think I would prefer to just go with the "new" controller I have made. Actually the hardware is better because the replacement MOBO is DDR2 based and I put 2GB in there instead of the original 512MB DDR1 RAM.

DO we think that MAC address error is the IF card/MOBO mismatch or just the fact the printer is missing?

Thanks for explaining the way the controller powers up now. I fully understand now. Thanks.

I should also point out the power supply in the original controller was readin 0 volts on my digital multimeter so it had a dead PSU and most likely the dead MOBO due to the bad caps. Maybe some sort of power surge took them both out, pretty unlucky but.


Last edited by marky000 on Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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jezebel09
resident


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 209

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

"Unable to find MAC address" is referring to the NIC (network interface card) on the motherboard. In order for an IPS number (serial number for key codes) to be generated by Unattend, Unattend needs to have the CPU ID, MAC address (hardware address of the NIC) and the KIP I/F serial number.

If one of these is not found, then no IPS number will be generated and hence the error.

As a consequence of this, the IPS number will be different and your key codes will need to be regenerated by KIP.

Also a thing of note, the KIP I/F card (printer interface card) is a bit finicky when it comes to motherboard compatibility. Just because it is showing in Device Manager in Windows, does not always guarantee it will actually print and work.


Last edited by jezebel09 on Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1852
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The red screen is caused by no printer attached.
_________________
Regards,
Mark
RVN 68-69
It's so nice to be insane
No one asks you to explain
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Mark and Jezebel.

Well I used the original IF card but the CPU and NIC is different as it is a different MOBO.

Would the problem be due to the missing ethernet card driver or is it a hardware thing that I will not be able to remedy?
 
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jezebel09
resident


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 209

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

With the NIC, you need to look in Device Manager under Network Network adapters to see if it has a driver loaded.

Anything with a yellow exclamation point is going to be an issue and will need to be remedied.

As I posted earlier, getting the KIP I/F card to work on non KIP certified hardware is not a fun thing to do.

If you can get the original motherboard repaired, I would go that route.
 
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mark in vegas
doctor


Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Posts: 1852
Location: Las Vegas, NV

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What jezebel09 said. Another flaw in your present course are the keycodes you'll need to obtain from KIP. Just start with the bulged cap, maybe you'll get lucky.
_________________
Regards,
Mark
RVN 68-69
It's so nice to be insane
No one asks you to explain
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, its got the yellow exclamation mark for the NIC in device manager.

Although sounds to me that maybe it was a good things at it prevented a new IPS serial number being generated which I presume would have meant I would have had an issue going back to the old controller.

So at this stage, I can presume that the serial number is unchanged and going down the road of repairing the original MOBO is the best strategy.


Last edited by marky000 on Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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