KeepItPrinting.com

[ReproRog]

Local rep talking about the KIP C7800 - successor to KC-80 - to be launched in the US this month. No more details forthcoming. Anyone know anything ?

[KIPDOCTOR]

Why do they even bother? With the new HP units so good and inexpensive you could have four of them for the price of one KIP. Waste of R&D money if you ask me.
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What we have gained in technology, we have lost in humanity.

[ReproRog]

I don't agree. I have benchmarked new HPs and the difference between "mechanical print speed" and actual productivity is enormous. Throw in all the other benefits like intelligent auto rotation, roll selection, submission tools, etc and the difference ain't so grand. Not everyone is in KC-80 territory but those who are close probably are.

[slyman]

I don't agree too...there is too much difference between both unit. I've just came back from KC80 training and it's an amazing machine. Yes it's the first one and Kip fix a few thing on it but you can do so much better thing on this machine.

Also, the KC80 CAN BE used for graphics shop AND architectural cie. All HP, Canon, Espon have one or the other kind of machine to have better result.

Reprorog, like I said, I've just came back from KC80 training at Novi and anyone tell us something about it. But nothing is impossible...

[GR81]

There is a new Canon System coming out within the year as well.
4 color D's a minute two rolls with a stacker.
I find it funny that they are going to wipe out thier own companies Oce CW300.

[cjwilt]

Yeah, when in Canon going to fully take over OCE? Anyone heard anthying there?

[REPRODOGGIE]

The Oce name is likely to be with us for a while. Lots or really complicated accounting issues attached to the demise of Oce moniker.

My understanding is that next year will see a 6 (yes six!) D per minute color machine with 2 or 3 rolls and a scanner. If I were a betting dog, I would wager that it will not be $100k.

Customers are expecting the develomental path of large format color to mirror that of small format. Many customers are surprised, some even indignant, that lower cost color toner units have not yet been introduced.

Some customers are even opting to keep their exisitng machines or signing shorter leases for new ones fearing that they will be stuck with "old technology".

One cannot ignore the changes in customer's perception and expectation brought about by the relentless marketing of the "latest and greatest" iPhone, Blackberry, Droid, Xbox, Wii, iPad, and countless other gadgets.

Some marketing experts have argued that the rapid "churn" rate associated with technology has actually hurt sales. This is manifested by the customer's reluctance to embrace what is for sale now, fearing what is next will be better and they will lose out.

The most successful products are those engineered and built to solve a specific problem for a defined customer profile. Who is the audience? must be the first question asked at a product development meeting.

The rise of the inkjet/memjet/jet yet to be invented will take over the AEC market. As printing becomes more dispersed, the operational cost difference will matter less and less, becuase the "pencil sell" for the KC80 requires concentrated print volume. Prints are still being made, just in smaller amounts spread out over more users.

70% of our sales over the last 3 years have been to first time buyers. How about the rest of you?

I welcome your comments. Do you agree, or am I completely crazed as some would sugest?

[tjohnson]

I have read all your posts in this thread and they all make perfect sense to me. I would have to say it all depends on your particular market as to if you have the call or need to high speed color output. I live in a small market and I do not know of any particular customer that could justify the cost of a Kip or Oce color machine, the demand just isn't there to offset the cost.
We are also an HP dealer and the new HP with the scanner attached is pretty much all we are selling in this depressed economy. It is priced right for color and copying capabilities around 10 grand and lots of government offices around here can easily get that amount out of their budget.
Its quite interesting hearing how much different things may be in different parts of the country as far as product need. I agree about being scared there is a huge development in technology around the corner that may be significant and make people scared to make any major purchases. I don't see anything like that coming that would change my small market base.

[mascan42]

tjohnson wrote:

I have read all your posts in this thread and they all make perfect sense to me. I would have to say it all depends on your particular market as to if you have the call or need to high speed color output. I live in a small market and I do not know of any particular customer that could justify the cost of a Kip or Oce color machine, the demand just isn't there to offset the cost.

Even in larger markets, it would take a huge drop in the cost to shift any of these in this economy. When people are getting laid off to cut costs, how can anyone justify buying a printer that costs more than a Mercedes?

[ReproRog]

Info I have is that KIP don't have a new colour system coming real soon.

The other I have is that KIP are looking very closely at MemJet technology. Suprising but not suprising.

As with colour in AEC market I have found that the proper use of colour in the design stage, up to document issue, can reduce design cock-ups significantly. In the estimation stage as well. If contingencies in a project are ~ 20% of project cost then a 50% reduction in re-works or costing errors is significant. Also if the cost of printing in colour is similar to the cost of printing in mono why wouldn't you do it ?

[p51d007]

Boy, if KIP does go this route, I sure hope the memjet print head is easy to replace. I don't work on the Risographs, but the guys that do sure pull their hair out trying to keep the HC5000/5500's running. Print head problems, leaks etc...
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39 years in the small format business, large format since 2009. Toshiba D.A.T.E. trainer.

[MasterBlaster]

Trust me Kip has no intentions to use anything with Memjet technology. I think people are going to be very happy with what Kip has to show in the near future.

[GR81]

Kip's "near future" is anytime in the next 10 years.
It better get out quick as the Oce CW600 is kicking Kip's butt!!

[p51d007]

I only have 1 KC80, but, in less than 2 years, it's racked up almost 900k sq feet, all of it color posters 24x24, 24x36 or banners 6-10feet long.
I don't see how anything short of something like memjet would be able to keep up. This customer had 4 canon ink jets that just wouldn't do the volume he wanted.
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39 years in the small format business, large format since 2009. Toshiba D.A.T.E. trainer.

[GR81]

Memjet has two very big problems right now, cutting and stacking.
They don't have a solution for these and untill they do it does not have a production application.