KeepItPrinting.com

[guest]

Have just come from the "official" KIP Dealer Forum, and boy are they mad!

The true service costs of the 6000 are now hitting dealers. All of the labor involved to get even close to the stated yield from DV units has them upset.

What has them really pissed is the fact that NOBODY from KIP will respond to them. KIP needs to learn that people understand mistakes, we all make them. It is what you do about it that matter.

Closing your eyes and covering your ears isn't gonna make it go away.

[jojobutthead]

It seems that historically this mid volume range machine has had issues with KIP. i.e. The 5000/3620 line was one of the most expensive lines to keep running. So why would anyone think that it's replacement would be any better?

[GUEST]

KIP is KIP.

They are not going to change for anyone, until they get some real competition, they don't have to.

[guest]

Just came from KIP site. They are now asking for huge amounts of paperwork on each 6000 to document the DV unit failures.

What tech has the time for this nonsense? We are too busy cleaning supply rollers. They must hope nobody will jump over the hurdles they put up.

Just like the goverment, when there is a problem they don't want to face up to, form a committee and study the matter.

They know the problems, do something!

[Kipintern]

Gentlemen This is why KEEP IT PRINTING FORUM SUPPORT is here!

We are here to help each other come up with the answer they cant or wont give you.
Sort of like who shot jfk !
The goal set fourth here is to support each other, get past the dealer attitude and support each other and ultimately the Kip product.

If i had a dollar everytime i helped solve issues for a dealer that has a unit under contract at my own expense I would be rich. The attitude is heading towards OCE mind set which hasnt worked in the past.

Kip should wake up if enough of us stand together and fight for the answers and stop step toeing around dealers and independents. I have seen that most independents go the extra mile to help any KIP customer and Have more knowledge than the actual dealers.

The answers are out there let work on getting them to everyone !

[Guest]

KIP Intern could not be more right.

KIP DOCTOR would be surprised how many dealers look at this site and the decrease in volume at the "offical" site.

We can not let this become a KIP-bashing site. Let's tell the truth, but leave the sarcasm at the door.

Independants are the inevitable byproduct of success. It happens in nearly every industry. Nothing new here.

Corporate hubris is often another byproduct of success. It happens to everyone. People get a little success, start seeing some $$$ and go a little crazy. This happens to manufacturers, dealers, independants, pro athletes, MC Hammer, and it takes a lot of character no to get caught up in it.

Stay focused, stay hungry, and remember that KIP is not the enemy. Our competitors are the enemy.

Then again, what do I know?

[Kipintern]

Guest,

I understand where u are coming from and we/I dont bash Kip But certian individuals. You can fight city hall as long as you cross your T's and Dot your I's !!! and do it respectfully and by the book.

The bottom line is the support for the product is out there with numbers growing daily, Kip is certianly not our issue's Its the Crooked Sale's force behind the product that's in the dealers pocket!

The dealer's could and have had support offered to them in the past from "un Offical Independents" and they all throw there nose's up at you. This is where I like to say "Freindly competition comes in !

Let the Hungry put there best foot forward and let the incumbants put there's ! and we will see who comes up the winner.

Our mind set is that there is enough for everyone and the dealers and kip should look at us as a Tool.

You go on service call you certianly bring wire and screw driver. Well He we are answers quicker and no Kip Gastopo to get threw or the end users hell " Call your dealer" We obviously they didnt have the answer !

Just Remenber Do be a guest show you solidarity and step up and join KIP(KEEP IT PRINTING)

And for all you unofficial KIP guys that watch the post's ! Remember Its real hard to win a non compete clause that you may or may not signed. Just ask The owner of 9800 service from Oce and Several ARC Sale's people who either started their own business or went to competitors.
The courts would rather have you a product working individual rather than one going threw the system cause you cant find livelyhood!


If you were lying in the mud, I would pass you by I would stop and Pick you up ! I would hope a person you would do the same for Us !!

[jojobutthead]

I agree, but being an independent to me means doing the best by my customer. And that is selling them the best box in their volume and price range. Not selling them a extremely high cost per copy box just because it happens to have KIP's name on it. When another manufacturer may offer a more reliable less expensive machine in the same range. What I see here is loyal KIP true and blue and nothing dealing with independence.

[Kipintern]

I to offer other units, However I dont care what anyone says The bottom line is Kip offers a superior unit, look at Ricoh Cheap inexpensive high maintenace and high toner and parts same with xerox and oce. The customer satifation is a must I have had to yank new boxes because of performance from customers and place Kips in there to make them happy.
It not True Blue Kip here its whats the best deal and the best long term.

And Basically anyone on here should be Kip true Blue because this is the Unofficial KIP Site ! No need to talk ablout ricoh mita,xerox oce cause only a handful of us know these boxes.

I have chewed on some fat in your neck of the woods and in the past I found the maintence from dealers was poor! Now i have even spoken to customer who were advised they would be happy with non kip purchases and They are saying that now !

[jojobutthead]

I am a Kip dealer, an HP dealer and a Mita dealer , and I agree the Kip 8000 is the best high volume box going. But in the real low volume application an account will run a Mita or now a Kyocera for 5 to 6 years with fewer problems than I have had with a Kip 2000. When the cost of a new Dev housing is baked in the Mita is cheaper to operate. The mid volume Xeroxs like the 8830 run hands down better than the new Kip 6000. The older KIP 7095 and 9810 I like much better than the KIP 7000. So in my opinionl KIP makes the best analog box on the market the 1880, and the best high volume 8000. But they leave a lot of holes in between. Replace say a mita 3648R with a KIP 2000, then go back in a year and tell them they need a $3000 dev. unit in their superior slower more costly KIP 2000.
The Mita has lower priced toner, lower priced drums, lower price parts all the way around.
PS I have never had to replace a developer unit in a Mita. Mita's plastic gears are like $.44 not $44.
I'm not knocking KIP, I'm knocking what is a true Independent servicer.
You notice I didn't mention Ricoh or Oce, but Oce does make a good analog box as well. It's a little pricier, but the instant on feature is well like as well.
As for Ricoh I think everyone knows quality when they see it and Ricoh is out of the runnig.

[guest]

To KIP Intern,

I am already a member, but sometimes you need that extra layer of protection.

The quality and the tone of posts on the KIP site have taken on a hostile tone. One person suggested that KIP give away free developer units to help dealers rotate them easier. I'm sure that will go over big at the meeting.

More disturbing is the fact that it is not the little dealers who are upset. There are posts from several of the larger dealers.

They are going to have to do something.

[jojobutthead]

The small dealers usually have another line on income be it copiers or fax machine and etc. If I get burned on a product like I have on the 6000, I don't sell it again. I only have to touch a hot stove once to know that its hot. The big dealers are truly in bed with KIP and sell the entire line or lose business. I waited over a year after launch before I sold my first 2000 and will only sell it now in selected volume ranges.
Of course the small dealer can play the odds as well if 10% of the dev. units are failing and all you have in the field is 2 you may luck out. But if you have 100 or 150 out there ouch.

[Kipintern]

Not sure how the 6000 failed on you solid unit like the 7000 and 8000,

on the dev units on 7000 and 6000 pm and service them per the schedule and they wont give you issues and the doctor has give us an alternatgive for the 8000 units. any good service company should always have 1 extra dv unit for each of your units sway them out and pm the old and save it . down time and money is saved .

[KIPDOCTOR]

Remember folks, the 6000 dev unit is really a 2000 dev unit slightly modified. It fails prematurely on the 2000, why wouldn't it fail when run harder than it should be. The 8000 dev unit is a different animal completely, yes same basic HDP principles, but a much more well executed design. I haven't started offering a refresh service on the 2000 and the 6000 dev units, but I might just do that if the demand is there.
The 8000 dev unit refresh program is going very well for those of you still considering it. After about 35 units done, only one has come back and that was due to a reg roller shorting bias issue. This program works and saves you money.
_________________
What we have gained in technology, we have lost in humanity.

[jojobutthead]

I agree with ya Doc. Your refresh service is needed on the lower volume machines and it would be a help. But the true point is there is a KIP problem and so far no one is really addressing it in KIP. I'm sure there are many trying but it just isn't being communicated to the dealers. I hope that they correct it in the 3000. A few poor running KIPs in an area doesn't help when trying to sell the name.