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Repairing a KIP 3000 controller - Part 2
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cjwilt
doctor


Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1041

 PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It sounds like you are having 2 different issues. Lets focus on one at a time.

First the E-51 needs to be fixed. This could be a few different things and we need to know more on the error. It should be a E-51-? The ? will be another number and that number will tell us what charge is out of whack.

You will need to remove the small cover right above the paper drawer on the right side. That should have the full code.
 
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tjohnson
doctor


Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 508
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho

 PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I believe the E-51 is a radf error, which the machine should consider to be an E031, E034 error. You either have a short in a corona unit, developer unit or it could just need a good cleaning and service. These were fairly common errors, but cwilt knows his stuff and I don't mean to interfere in his support thread.
 
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jezebel09
resident


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 209

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

marky000 wrote:
- I then tried it using KIP request and it failed to print the "bad" PDFs but could print the "good" PDFs. Clearly, KIP Request talks using its own driver (independent of the Windows driver). KIP Request version on Controller is 6.5.0.49 and KIP Request Version on Workstation is 6.5.109.

Again, this is due to KIP conversion files when printing from Request. See my notes below.

marky000 wrote:
- I installed the latest KIP 8.112 Windows driver on the workstation but that obviously did not fix the KIP Request issue.

This is correct. The KIP Windows driver has nothing to do with Request. The Windows driver renders (draws) print data from an application and either renders it in KIPGL (modified HPGL) or KIPScript (PostScript) print data. KIP Request only sends print ready data to the printer where it is converted into printer data.

marky000 wrote:
- It seems strange why I can't properly print from the controller itself. Maybe this is normal behaviour. I was able to print out a notepad document (sometimes) but I couldn't test a PDF as the controller would not let me install Adobe Reader ( I guess because it is just Windows XP embedded). I realise no one would actually print from the controller but troubleshooting wise, it would have been good to be able to print direct from controller. Can KIP Request be run from the controller?

Request can be run from the controller by browsing to c:\program files\kip\request and launching winreq.exe. However, I would believe you will get the same problems because of the nature of the PDF files you are trying to print. Unfortunately, there are seamlessly an endless number of PDF generators available and they don't always use a standard method of creating a PDF file. This wreaks havoc and as I have mentioned before the KIP conversion files may need to be updated. Perhaps someone on this forum has a newer set for you to try on the controller.

marky000 wrote:
- At one point, rather than the print jobs going through the queue normally and printing, the job would hit the KIP queue but rather than giving the name of the machine that created the print job and then printing automatically, it would have a strange KIP code instead and then say something like "check film". If I then clicked on "check film" on the touchscreen and selected paper, the job would go through. Then suddenly it stopped doing it and went back to printing jobs automatically. The mind boggles.

I don't think "check film" is the right error, but rather the printer driver or whatever you are printing from has the default paper set to Film. You are changing the print job paper type from Film to Bond and it is working because you have Bond paper in your printer.
 
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marky000
medical school senior


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Western Australia

 PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks guys,

The exact error mesage I have written down in the past is " "Internal Voltage Error, E-031-E034, Cycle Power". But next time I am onsite, I will see if I can open the cover and get the exact code (assuming it plays up when I am there next). The machine was sitting around for near on a year gathering dust and there was also a power surge that knocked out the controller last year so maybe that's what is going on here. However, I have been there and watch 25 sheets print without error and then all of a sudden it plays up randomly.

And Jezebel, based on your post, am I right in saying that upating KIP Request on the workstation will have no effect in terms of being able to print the "bad" PDFs?

I am starting to understand KIP Request as really just a network program that places the files to be printed into the correct location on the controller, ready for conversion and ultimately printed. So based on this theory, the controller is at fault here and not the workstation (the KIP conversion files as explained by Jezebel).

What is weird is that up to last year (before the KIP controller died), the customer recalls being able to print all PDFs so it does seem a little odd that now 75% of PDFs are failing in KIP Request.

Anyway, I think the customer is quite ok with the printing in Adobe Reader and because I setup a SMB scan folder location, KIP Request is essentially redundant at this stage.

I will check the Windows driver and Adobe Reader settings to see if bond or film etc was the selected media type etc. What seemed strange to me was how it randomly corrected itself (without me adjusting anything).

I will let the client fumble though the issues for a while and keep you guys posted.

Thanks again
 
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caliwidetech
dreaming of medical school


Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 5

 PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Bad Off issues Reply with quote Back to top

Hello...I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I have been certified by Kip for the last 12 years...fyi

I have routinely run into issues over true pdf vs. Non true pdf. All this really means is the file was not generated by an adobe product. The issue not printing some files, always comes back to the file. 99% its because the file has multiple layers. A proper printable file should always be flattened. This however has been corrected in 7.4 and above. Not 7.2.

You can always get a print out of acrobat regardless of layers if you pick advanced options and print as an image. Make sure to match the resolution also.
 
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jezebel09
resident


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 209

 PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

marky000 wrote:


And Jezebel, based on your post, am I right in saying that upating KIP Request on the workstation will have no effect in terms of being able to print the "bad" PDFs?

I am starting to understand KIP Request as really just a network program that places the files to be printed into the correct location on the controller, ready for conversion and ultimately printed. So based on this theory, the controller is at fault here and not the workstation (the KIP conversion files as explained by Jezebel).

What is weird is that up to last year (before the KIP controller died), the customer recalls being able to print all PDFs so it does seem a little odd that now 75% of PDFs are failing in KIP Request.



A little more information on the nature of Request and PDF file printing.

Yes, upgrading Request on the workstation will have zero effect on printing PDF files on the controller. Request is simply a 'tool' that delivers print ready data (PDFs) to the controller in a wrapper (KIP job ticket). KIP Request is not responsible for the converting ANY print data at the controller (IPS) itself. The only time conversion comes into play within KIP Request is if you decide to view a print file prior to hitting the Submit button.

An interesting method to test how things work though, is to first view the files within KIP Request and see if they can be viewed. If they can, then you know that the conversion software used on the workstation has some better compatibility than the conversion software on the controller. As noted earlier, these may be interchanged.

Regarding printing from Adobe, the reason they are having better success is for the simple fact that Adobe products understand PDF files natively (they no longer are the owner of the PDF format, but they created it as a print ready file for postscript printer language files).

Previous comments about the ability to print PDF files are somewhat correct. As I mentioned, PDF files can be created by virtually any company and can be created in many, many different ways. Hence some files print and some files do not print.

2 factors can cause this:

1. The PDF generator. As noted, there are many way to generate PDF files. Sometimes not all artifacts are embedded in the file such as fonts. Or custom artifacts are used and not included in the file. When this happens, the PDF interpreter isn't sure what to do with the file and you get bad output.

2. The PDF interpreter does not adhere to the rules of printing PDF files. There are essentially 2 main PDF interpreters on the market today. GhostScript and Adobe Print Engine. KIP (and many other manufacturers) utilize GhostScript (KIPScript). GhostScript is a very good interpreter, but it is not 100% perfect. It, along with any program is prone to bugs and these bugs may persist and/or never be fixed. Again, a bad interpreter will give you bad output.

There is no sure fire way to ensure you get 100% perfect output, but reading suggestions in this forum and understanding how the system works will go long way in determining your output.

Phew, that is a lot of typing.....
 
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