KeepItPrinting.com

[tech2tech]

Kip has recently purchasd a dealership in the Chicago area so they can now sell direct. I have been told from a former kip employee that this is only the begining. They will be setting up shop in other high volume areas and using dealerships only in the smaller areas. If I were a dealer I would have a lawyer look at the dealership contract to see if you can protect your right as a dealer.

[Tinyminime]

What Does it matter to you! I see from your web page you sell and support Seiko product. Why don't you worry about your own product.
Your comment just seems trouble making to me.
Great sales trick to run down the competitors.
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I used to have hair!!!

[MasterBlaster]

Many companies also own certain stores / distributors / dealers. As long as they are not giving the product at a lower price then they are to other dealers it shouldn't matter.

If Kip started selling directly to end users at a price that the current dealers couldn't compete with that would be a problem. Someone needs to service the machine and Kip doesn't have a nationwide service bureau so I don't see how they could sell direct unless the new 700m can be maintained by an average user.

[tech2tech]

This information is for the dealers so they would be informed. kip is not only selling but they are servicing That was the point in them buying a DEALERSHIP. For those of you who want to get mad at me for posting this than you should not be reading the KIP RUMORS post. This is the place to post information like this for other dealers. They can do whatever they want with this information.

[phan6622]

Will you name the chicago dealer?

[KIPDOCTOR]

Probably the dealer they "purchased" owed them so much money that they just took them over by default.

None the less, this is some interesting info. Oh, and Master brings up a interesting theory. A machine that can be self maintained like any other other modern laser printer out there. Think it is far fetched? Think again. The KIP engineers were working on that concept back in the days of the 2000. Maybe they finally perfected it.

I think Master is on to something. We shall soon see.
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What we have gained in technology, we have lost in humanity.

[caltech]

The Chicago dealer is Clifford-Wald. One of the biggest dealers in the midwest and they have several national accounts. KIP has been selling and servicing direct where they have a local office for years now. There hasn't been real threat from them before.

[mmelrod]

Is the KIP purchase of Clifford-Wald a rumor or fact? I just met the owner of Clifford-Wald at the tech preview show back in June. Looking back, and if the purchase is true, I wonder if CW was negotiating the sale at that event.

I am interested to see what affect this purchase will have on their pricing. We have access to KIP through our KM channel and have gotten beat by CW a few times by a few thousand dollars below our cost. My Kip rep says the KM pricing and the KIP dealer pricing are similar. I don't believe it...

[CHILLIN]

The KM pricing and the dealer pricing are probably pretty close. I find it sort of funny that someone with ties to KM is complaining about be beaten by price by a few thousand dollars. KM has been doing this for a few years now to all the KIP dealers. I know for a fact that right now there are areas in the US that KM is selling machines 3-4 thousand dollars below my cost to rid themselves of thier KIP inventory.

[mmelrod]

couldn't agree with you more about KM direct. I didn't think I was complaining because we/I lost a deal as much as I am trying to understand why there could be these price differences between a regional, though successful, KIP dealer versus a nationally negotiated purchase agreement. I am not naive so I'm sure there are always exceptions to each deal.

My real question is this: are there any advantages or disadvantages to being a traditional KIP dealer?

[CHILLIN]

As I said before the best price that anyone is buying machines From KIP varies little probably less than 5% for the top selling dealers. I think where the price differences comes in to play is that some KIP dealers like KM and other dealers that are really small copier companies that dabble in the large format business is the these copier companies have always worked with the attitude of get the box in the door even at a loss. Its hard to sell against that sort of mentality, but how long will companies like KM keep doing this? I have seen a few lately get out of the large format business. Probably because they soon figure out that it's not good business.

KIP has always sold direct to customers. They have been doing it for years, but they usually don't step on a dealers if that dealer has a good standing with them. Plus a dealer believe it or not a dealer can give a better discount then KIP can. Which is probably why KIP took over the Clifford-Wald. Now they can give better discounts.

Finally you ask the benifits to being a KIP dealer. One is that as a dealer in good standing you can get the best discounts. 2nd is that you can get KIP support for what that is worth. The software guys up in Detriot are good and if they don't know the answer they get it. Hardware is always a matter of who you speak to. KM from what I heard is supposed to handle all support internally for the KIP products and I have heard horror stories about that.

That just my 3 cents.

[REPRODOGGIE]

If this is true, then it was just a matter of time. This is how it started in the Copier business. KIP, ARC, or anyone else, what is the difference?

I doubt very much if KIP has the time, desire, or structure to build a direct sales organization from the ground up. They have never shown the desire for it before, and leopards do not change their spots.

I also doubt the assertion that a large debt caused this. KIP has been fiscally conservative for some years now, it is doubtful that they would let anyone get that far in debt.

Acquisition by manufacturers, or consolidators will come to our industry, it is the next logical step. Run your business smart, stay out of debt, and maybe, if you are lucky, they will come for you too.

RD

[phan6622]

I think the clear advantage to Wald was that Wald only dealt with machine sales... and very little software... They didn't have the reproduction business that most reprographers do. If Allan could have sold to ARC, I bet he would have.. just doesn't fit their overall business model.

[GR81]

KIP Purchased Clifford Wold to keep it out of the hands of ARC.
ARC would have gone 90 percent OCE.
KIP has no plans to purchase any other companies.