KeepItPrinting.com

[Guest]

I work for a company that will soon be bought by OCE (searce and you will see). We sell KIP and now it looks like I will have to learn OCE. I have not seen this posted before so I thought some of you might be interested. Boy am I screwed.........

[scott]

The Oce's aren't that bad of a machine. From a purely service standpoint, you shouldn't have a problem switching to Oce.

Where your screwed is having Oce North America's pathetic excuse for upper management running the company you work for. They have peculiar ideas about how things should be done.
Imagistics market share isn't exactly huge, the profit margin in narrow format is razor thin, and Oce believes in nice fat profit margins. Makes you wonder about the future.

I have been told that Oce is going to be transfering some of it's manufacturing operations to asia in an attempt to reduce costs. I would see the accuisition of Imagistics as another part of the same stratagy. They have been steadily losing their share of the wide format segment, their roll and cut sheet high speed printing segment has never been what you would call a cash cow, so they are trying to cut costs and improve market penetration.
And, yes, kipintern, this is kip related, this is somthing Kip and every Kip dealer should be watching.




Scott

[Guest]

You want to talk about losing market share, you don't have to look any further than KIP itself. I have seen OCE come in and take KIP's lunch right out from under them. And KIP does nothing. Great management. Imagistics was one of the better scores as a reseller for KIP and now that one's gone. Sure, the 3000 is a going to be a great unit, but how many of those are you going to have to sell to equal what you could make on an 8000? Kip doesn't exactly have repeat customers as thier strong point due to thier lack of follow up and support for thier current customers. I have said it before and will say it again, " if you want to play with the big boys, you have to start acting like a big boy" . KIP is still very much like a mom and pop organization. They are notoriously micromanaged by an unstable, egotistical, dictator. This is what is keeping KIP down. You need to have more support people and a more open management policy. You will then be able to respond to issues and needs of your dealers and you will sell more boxes. But what do I know?

[Guest]

Oce is losing market share, they admit that themselves, thus the move to asian manufacturing. Cost of their equipment is a major reason for losing that market share.

Kip needs to get their head out of the sand and see that oce's move to asia and the purchasc of imagistics is a move that could not only take kip's lunch, but breakfast, dinner and their bedtime snack too!!

The high volume printers is where the money is, both in sales and service. Kip needs to get themselves a reproshop with a tds800 with reprodesk, run it in the real world and then go back to their r and d lab and make a high volume printer and a version of power print that is competitive with Oce feature wise. Speed and cost wont carry them forever and, yes, if they want to play with the big boys, they need to start acting like one!!!!

[KIPDOCTOR]

The best high volume printer solution is already out there. It is the KIP 8000 with a PLP front end. That systems rocks like there is no tommorrow. Ask the boys at National Repro in NYC. Last count they had 5 - 8000's with the PLP front end. Rock solid and user friendly. I had a chance to meet the boys from PLP while I was there. I am very impressed to say the least.
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What we have gained in technology, we have lost in humanity.

[KIP Phd]

The future lies in the broad based market that the 3000 will open up. No Dealer can make a living selling to repro shops owing to the nature of the beast.

End users are the future. Those KIP Dealers who prosper will be the ones who climb down off their high profit margin horses and become service and volume oriented.

The days of the $12/hr service/shop tech are over. Better be prepared to provide real service and pay real money to do it.

Imagisitics makes their living in the fortune 500, not in the street. I question how many Kip's they were buying in the first place. To the dealer community, this is a non-event.

As for the "dictator" running KIP, all companies are run by dictators. Some are just better at sugar-coating it than others. Most Japanese companies run this way, it is that some have a thicker veneer of civility than others.

KIP Dealers take heart, Oce moving to lock up distribution means that others will have to follow suit. Ikon, GISX, KIP, or Imagisitics themselves can not afford to let Oce snap up the available distribution channels.

KIP Phd